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Mark

DEF consumption

I read in another post Gary, that you were wondering the acurate amount of DEF fluid a truck would consume. †Well I found a truck shootout (the Dodge did not have the DEF installed) of the Chevy and Ford. †They say the GM consumed 2760 mL loaded, and the Ford consumed 2650 mL over 318 miles. †

A gallon is 3785 mL so it looks like it will cost $5.99 to fill the DEF at an estimated 450 miles making it $.013 into your operation cost. †(if I did my math corectly)

Hope this helps!
Mark

forgot to post link

http://special-reports.pickuptruc...08/2010-hd-fuel-economy-test.html

Enjoy!
Gary

Thanks Mark I'll take a look at that link when I get some time.
ElkyRacer

Not a really good example, but my 2011 Dodge 3500 C&C went 3883 miles before the Add DEF message came up on the gauge cluster. I wasnt able to fill it up at the time as the truck stop I went to only had a 2.5gal jug. Im going to do an oil change tomorrow, fill the DEF tank, put a couple jugs in the toolbox and see just how far I can go before the truck goes into limp mode.
Gary

Maybe I read it wrong? But i thought once the truck goes into limp mode because of low DEF the truck had to be taken to the dealer?
Gary

How low does the tank get before the light on the dash comes on?
EAT

If I remember right, the truck doesn't go into limp mode. It will start to warn you how many miles you have left to fill it. For example; if it says 50 miles left and you drive 100 miles and shut it off, it won't re-start (as long as you don't shut it off you're ok). It starts warning you long before that, I just don't remember what the mileage is that it starts at.


Sam
Gary

Yep thats wat I read, if it gets to low the truck won't start once you shut it off. Imagine that calling a wrecker to tow a new truck in to the dealer. There goes a few hundred.
DonC Okla.

Well, here's a question along these lines. If the DEF runs out and you shut off the truck and it does not start again, if you are at a truck stop or someplace that has DEF and you refill the tank, will it start then? Or, does something on the truck need to be reset by the dealer?
EAT

I can't say for sure, but I think if the tank is refilled, the truck will start.
Gary

I heard if the vehicle won't restart do to low DEF (when it gets to a certain low level) and it would have to be towed in to the dealer to have the system reset? Who knows for sure though, you get different stories from different salesman? If I had one of these new trucks I think I'd make a morning ritchual out of checking the DEF level before starting out.
DonC Okla.

Now here is an off the wall idea. If the DEF tank is set up like a regular fuel tank, can you open the tank and zip tie the float on the sender unit in the full position and head on down the road? Or perhaps, just disconnect the harness for the sender unit. Just a couple of ideas that are way out there.
Gary

I'm sure guys will be trying all this stuff.
G4 Trucking

after the def gets low it will warn you, then you have so many key cycles til it just wont start, the guys in the oilfield are just leaving them run all the time
mbeal

Is there an issue with the length of idle time on these smaller Cummins engines?  A friend owns a fleet of KW's; the engines have timers on them to shut down after five minutes of idle time so excess fuel does not pass the rings and contaminate the oil.
Gary

Idling isn't good for any engine, some people call what your talking about blathering. It's when the cylinder temp is to cool from just Idling to ignite all the fuel. It can pass the rings and contaminate the oil like you said, but it can also flow out the exhaust ports and saturate manifold gaskets and run down the side of the block. Looks like oil but it's just black smoke and fuel mixed..
ElkyRacer

Heres a bit more info. 2011 3500 C&C, 4wd, auto. 40ft PJ.

Truck has 5794 miles and I did the first oil change, and filled the DEF tank.

I put 6.25 gallons of DEF in the tank. Add the 2.5 gallons added last weekend, that brings us to 8.75 gallons used in the past 5794 miles.

Average 662 miles per gallon of DEF. Paid an avearage of $17.00 for a 2.5 gallon jug. $6.80 per gallon. If my math is right, that equals out to about $.010 per mile extra to operate with a DEF equipped truck.

At 2gal remaining, you get the Low DEF message.
At 1gal remaining, the 500 mile countdown starts.
After the 500 miles, it will not re-start. Manual says you should add a minimum of 2gal of DEF to re-start the engine. Doesnt say anything about needing to take it to a dealer to re-start after running out of DEF.

It also says you can call 866-RAM-INFO to receive assistance in locating DEF. you can additionally receive assistance in having DEF delivered to your location overnight, AT YOUR EXPENSE. HAH!
TriSum

Who would have ever thought- DIESEL EXHAUST FLUID !!  Kind of sounds like MUFFLER BEARING !!   I can't wait to see what is next.

David
Coastal Hotshots
Gary

We should send some of this stuff out to a lab.  Watch the results come back as trucker pee from the bottles we see scattered up and down the highway.
smr500

I wonder if any of the "off road" programmer companies like XRT & Smarty are working on this? They did a nice job with the DPF's and the EGR's.
espressolane

I am not endorsing this practice, But I have been told this by a number of people.

The DEF systems do not know what type of fluid is in the tank.
You could put water in the tank and the system will still work.
It may not be doing what it is designed to do, but it will work.

I have seen people mix the DEF fluid with water 50/50 and put it in the tank.

I don't know what if anything it does to the parts in the system.
ElkyRacer

smr500 wrote:
I wonder if any of the "off road" programmer companies like XRT & Smarty are working on this? They did a nice job with the DPF's and the EGR's.


XRT has said they are working on it. Id have to buy another PCM to swap out and run it, as I reeeeeeeally dont want to have any warranty issues come up. Even though I know a tech at the dealer, I dont want to chance it.

Im wondering what tells the system to inject the urea. My thinking was as with the old systems that injected extra fuel through the motor when the DPF was full, stayed cleaner for guys like us who WORKED the trucks and kept the EGTs up there. I never once saw the 2008 I was driving go into REGEN mode while I was using it. Only when my boss started back to driving it, and not working it, did it go into REGEN. So I was thinking that this system would do the same, only inject UREA when the DPF needed cleaning. It doesnt seem like it as the people I have seen using the trucks lightly are seeing the same useage.
House of Payne

Gary wrote:
We should send some of this stuff out to a lab. †Watch the results come back as trucker pee from the bottles we see scattered up and down the highway.


I thought DEF was a mix of water and urine?? †Oh its urea well don't ya think after 5 or 6 cans of coke you could just poor a bottle of water and pee in the DEF tank. †That should zap them emissions. And just think no more pee bottles on the road or in the truck stop parking lot. †See we would all be helping mother earth.
Gary

Thats exactly what I was thinking, LOL
ElkyRacer

DonC Okla. wrote:
Well, here's a question along these lines. If the DEF runs out and you shut off the truck and it does not start again, if you are at a truck stop or someplace that has DEF and you refill the tank, will it start then? Or, does something on the truck need to be reset by the dealer?


You must add at least 2.5gal to the tank for the truck to be able to re-start. No towing to dealer and manual restart is needed.


And this is a quote from this article. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009...reduction-solutions-for-2010.html

Quote:
For those thinking of ways to defeat the DEF fluid-level system, donít. Sensors can determine the composition of the DEF added to the truck, so substitutes like pure water or (ahem) pee canít be used. The truck will know. It will also detect if you try to mix agricultural-grade urea and demineralized water to brew a homemade batch of DEF.


Im still getting about 600 miles per gallon of DEF. 20,000 miles on the truck so far. Also have found DEF in bulk at the Loves near me is MUCH cheaper, at $2.799 per gallon compared to $5.20 per gallon buying it in a 2.5 gallon jug.
Ontimetransportnd

I ran a semi low on DEF once in the middle of nowhere and the truck would not go past 45mph and was very sluggish going uphill.Dont know what happens to pick ups though.The key to Less DEF consumption is less idle or high idle.I did a comparison once with the company i was working once and there was a total of 11 trucks,all Western Stars with Detroit Diesel DD15 and the truck i ran would consume less DEF than all the others.Mind you i put in more hours a day than the other drivers,just did not idle for long.

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