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msterry

Motor Fuel Use Tax [IFTA] Violation

On Oct27,I was cited for operating a commercial moter vehicle iIllinois n without approprate credentials (i.e. IFTA ,Illnois Single -Trip Permit, 30-day IFTA temporary permit, required decals]  I am tagged  26000 My trailer's gvw is 14000 I assumed I do not fall under IFTA guidelines however a 30 day single trip never permit never occured to me. Do they have me for $1,000 BIG ONES
Gary

If your under the 26,001 lb you should be able to get out of that IFTA portion of the ticket. That is as long as you were under the 26,001 weight at the time you were ticketed and you can prove it.

Unless your base State and IL has a reciprocity agreement you'd need a trip permit if you don't have apportioned license plates. Many bordering States have this reciprocity arrangement. Should be easy for you to check it out with your local DOT office.

As far as required decals? Are you talking about your company name, city, state, US DOT numbers on the side of your truck? or IFTA decals and/or a weight decal?
msterry

Motor Fuel Use Tax [IFTA] Violation

Gary, they are talking IFTA stickers I have company name DOT numbers on truck. The officer told me he stopped me for no fuel tax sticker,I said Iam not under IFTA ,he ask to see truck and trailer registratration, he said truck says 26000 trailer 14000 ,I said I know thats combination, He said this is nationwide,I said I know, we went round and round long story short I asumed he was DOT, I think he is a TAX MAN the thicket is from Illinois Department of Revenue Bureau of Criminal Investigation
Gary

The only thing he should be looking at is the GVW in the door jam and the GVW on the trailer and of course registered weight to make sure your under the 26,001 lbs. If the door jam sticker and the trailer GVW plate reads under 26,001 lbs, and the registered weight reads under 26,001 lb he should not be ticketing you for not having IFTA.

Whats the GVW of your truck? What kind of truck is it?

Your truck and trailer (combined) GVW should be what your registered at under your truck/tractor plates. Your should have a permenant or token plate on the traielr.

If you have non apportioned plates, just reg commercial pickup (or semi?) plates and you have your trailer registered at 14,000 gvw also thats probably where he got you.

Each State looks at this stuff a little different when it comes to imposing fines. Some State and federal agencies will come down hard if they feel the Carrier is trying to cheat the system. They can even look at is as tax evasion. If they look at it as tax evasion the fines can be severe. I hope thats not the case with your situation.

If you know you've licensed either your truck or trailer wrong and /or you have been hauling over 26,001 gvw your best bet is to get your equipment licensed correctly, and get signed up with IFTA before your court date and then tell the Judge you didn't know you were in the wrong, show them you've corrected everything and ask the judge/court for leniency.

If there's anything we can do to help you with this let me know. First thing I'd do though if your over 26,001 lbs is get the registration right and file for a IFTA license and stickers.
Brisco

You still driving that 2000 Ford 7.3 Dually?

If so, your GVWR is probably 11,500. You stated the GVWR on the trailer is 14,000. If this is the case, then that Trooper is wrong. You are clearly running at 25,500, and under what you have your truck registered at at 26,000.

Sounds like to me the Trooper added up your Trucks "Registration" weight, 26,000, and your trailers GVWR, 14,000, putting you at 40,000, and issued you a ticket for running at 40K with no IFTA filings.

Did he even look at your doorjam, or did he only look at the paperwork/registration for both the truck and trailer???

Only conclusion I can come up with, unless you got rid of that 2000 Ford and got a 12,200 GVWR 4WD Cummins or something. Really, we need to know your trucks GVWR to get to the bottom of this. Know what I mean.
msterry

Thanks for all the input.  Yes Brisco, I am still running the F350 2000, and you are also correct as to how he added up the 26k and 14k looking at registration only.  He did not look at tag on door jamb or on trailer.  I went to many places today, the IRP, the DOT, reread the statute, and then to the IFTA office here in Columbus, OH.  I went over the scenario at the IFTA office.  The tax agent told me that he probably just looked at my registration, showing 26k and 14k, as I observed while I was there.  She told me to go to BMV and register the truck at 10k or 12k, and the trailer at 14k which will have the combined weight close to 24k to 26k, not going over 26k.  The reason I am still at this weight is because the truck has 324k miles on it, and still runs good.  I will continue until I can get a truck to run with you "BIG DAWGS".  I am still skeptical of the present economy, and that is the reason I am still under 26k.  I would love to have Dutch's rig, but dont see it happening in present economy.
I will post outcome.
Thanks again for all the help.
Mike Terry
Brisco

This is right here from your own state of Ohio:

QUALIFIED VEHICLES:
The following vehicles are required to display IFTA decals and report fuel use under the IFTA program:

1. Power unit having two axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered
gross vehicle weight exceeding 26,000 pounds.

2. Power unit having three or more axles, regardless of weight.

3. Power unit used in combination when the weight of such combination
exceeds 26,000 pounds gross vehicle weight.

Recreational vehicles are exempt from IFTA. Buses are subject to IFTA reporting.


Page 3:
http://www.tax.ohio.gov/divisions..._instruction_manual_rev_05_09.pdf

So, in a sense, it looks like he may have you since you registered your GVW on the truck at 26K. That 1 word up there in item 1, "Registered", actually puts you at 40K when hooked up to your trailer.

Seems like I had a huge discussion with Hoosier Transport some years back over this exact same issue. They wanted me to register my 2004 Dodge Dually at a 26K weight rating. If I recall, Texas "IFTA" rules were in the same category, and I explained to them that if I registered my truck for 26K just to haul RV's with, that I'd be in the IFTA regulations for every trailer I pulled. Even if I was hooked up to an 18ft, 1800lb Tent Trailer, and "total weight" going down the road was only 10K lbs or so. Ms Sammi's Hubby called me back a couple of days later and said that I was right and not to register my truck at 26K. Ever since, I've only registered my duallys at what the factory rated it at.

So, Yes, get that truck back down to an 11,500 Registration, and try to fight that violation with the "I Didn't Know" defense, or "I was given the wrong info" defense. Since this was the first time it's been brought to your attention, the judge may help you out.
msterry

The "I Didn't Know" defense, or "I was given the wrong info"  are both good options, but I am going to use "It is a clerical error, but I am going to get it corrected, courtesy of my IFTA tax lady."  In filing my written protest to the state of Illionois I will include a copy of the ticket, weight of my empty truck/trailer, bill of lading showing the weight I was carrying and a new and revised registration going by the sticker on the door jamb showing 11.5K and a copy of the statute from Ohio.  Hopefully I wont have to go to an administrative hearing.  I know lots of people that had their truck registered the way mine was and the way Hoosier wanted, but had not given this any thought until this incident.  
Thanks again,
Mike
msterry

Brisco, I follow what you are saying, however, I have a question:
If you register your truck at your mfg recommended GVW, how do you get your tag for the combination weight in TX?  What agency does this, as Ohio tags you based on your truck registration, keeping in mind I dont have IRP tags, or appoprtioned plates.  However, this is my delima, I do have a current registration (as of yesterday) with 11.2K on it.  However, that limits me to only carrying 1800 lb loads which my wife says wont pay the bills.  She picked up on this right away.  
Thanks
Mike Terry
Gary

Msterry, I'm just curios, what is your axles each rated at? I know the trailer is 14,000 gvw (probably 2 7k axles on the trialer?) but whats your steer axle and drive axle each say in the door jam?

Also whats your end goal for gross weight (truck, trailer, and load total)? Are you wanting to stay under 26,001 lbs?

I think the only way your gonna get where you need to be though is by getting apportioned/IRP plates? With apportioned plates you can register your pickup like a semi placing all combined GVW's all on the truck registration. Regardless though you'll never be able to go over the axle gvw's. It's how all our guys are registered. Even the guy I had here a few years ago running under 26,001 lb needed apportioned plates. He didn't have IFTA, he just IRP Plates.
8ballexpress

IFTA fines

Just want to bump this to find how how msterry made out with this fine.
I have researched this for my own knowledge and this is what I have come up with. It seems that the registration process was messed up in the beginning when the truck was registered as a 'combo' and then the trailer was registered at it's GVWR. If the truck still has a bed on it, it should be registered at it's GVWR (because it can haul cargo in it) and the trailer also at it's GVWR. However, if the bed has been removed from the truck, making it a 'power unit', then the truck should be registered at the combined weight of truck and trailer. The trailer then should have 'token' tags, as per Gary's remarks.
I hope that the State of Illinois has been understanding in this matter as a $1000 fine for a small time O/O is a sure hit in the pocket.
Please let us know the outcome.
Gary

Bed on or off we register our trucks under IRP with our gross combined weight on our truck IRP plate. Our trailers get a permanant plate.

It's the way we've done it for years and we've never had an issue.
msterry

In the state of Ohio, without having IRP plates, it is registered in two ways, one is at 10k and the other at 26k.  Both of them being combinations.  I had an administrative hearing date of 2/16.  Today they emailed our house and asked if I would be available for a teleconference at 1 pm today, as there is a scheduling conflict with the judge for the 16th.  My wife emailed back and told them I am on the road, so I expect them to reschedule for another date.  They had told me I can do this by phone and this is my plan of action.  I will send a copy of the registration for the truck and trailer, and pictures of the stickers on both, and a copy of the unladen weight of the truck and trailer, laden weight, and a copy of the statute at 26k.  It seems pretty clear to me, however, I did call over there one day and asked how to register a 1 ton truck, with GVW of 11,200 plus trailer of GVW of 14,000, to stay under 26k.  Their reply was "I dont know, you will have to call the Illinois Sec of State to answer that".  Keeping in mind that the number I had called was on the summons they had sent me from the tax office, and the IFTA guy could not answer the question.  So what a bunch of malarkey this is!!!!  So no, this has not yet been resolved 8BallExpress.  I will let the outcome be known.
GOD BLESS!!
Mike
HardDrive

tags

I got my 1st audit yesterday from the FMCSA (Ga Dot) we had 26 k tags on trucks. We have 3 trailers 25, 30 and 40 ' trailers with GVW of 14, and 20 k. He told me to go back to reg tags for truck and save the money of the commercial plates. When I pulled for Jayco (JET) they were as strict as it comes, they made me have 26k  (beacuse of Utah) and now make the them have apportioned plates just to get out of permits, but not IFTA. Seem's like everything we do is wrong...lol...I was running same as mystery. I got to change back to what truck GVW calls for. I did pass audit..he said...u guys seem to have grasp on what to do    I asked when will I see u again, his reply was..when u start messn up.
Gary

Congrats on passing your audit HardDrive.

Several years back we had a TXDOT Auditor tell one of our TX based Owner Operators he should be doing a few things differently, he even told him he was doing his log book wrong (no ticket, just a verbal warning   ). He took the Auditor advice and the next thing he knew he was getting a log book ticket in CO and having to switch the licensing stuff the Auditor had him change back to the way it was.

What he's saying to change could possibly save you some money in one area and then cost you in another. Before switching anything confirm with other States the changes work for them as well. It's better to be safe then sorry.
HardDrive

I agree..was some surprized...was thinking of going with apportioned plates..was set back..and he was with FMCSA...i got to do some homework. I was run down in Illinoise and they only wanted to see tag reg..in a reg pickup with blue lights..all he wanted..must be same thing as msytery
msterry

IFTA violation - Resolution

I did exactly as I had stated previously, submitting as evidence:  
Page 1 - pic of truck w/trailer attached.  
Page 2 - pic of sticker on truck door, which shows GVW - 11,200 lbs
Page 3 - truck registration, showing it registered as a commercial truck
Page 4 - pic of sticker on trailer showing 14,000 GVWR
Page 5 - pic of sticker on trailer showing max cargo weight not to exceed 8,620 lbs
Page 6 - BOL showing laden weight of 8,300 lbs
Page 7 - trailer registration
Page 8 - CAT scales statement showing unladen weight 13,240 lbs.  When adding this to the weight of the load I had at that time (8,300) total 21,540 lbs.
Page 9 - word document regarding the Ohio IFTA Qualified Vehicles
This was sent to the Assistant Attorney General in the state of IL and she reviewed and reccommended dismissal of this action against us.  
It seems the "tax man" really is just out there writing tickets, not knowing what the guidelines are, getting information, just like some of you recieved information from a guy in the field, which is incorrect.  I am thanking all of you for your input, and I am sure someone else will experience something similar.  Just do your research and know your rights.  Justice prevailed in this case!!  God bless America!!
8ballexpress

I wonder how many other people who have been backed into this same corner have just forked over the money and went on their merry way?? Think of the amount of revenue that the states collect in these situations when people don't know the rules and just do what they are told. Good to do the research and have some head knowledge about it.
Gary

Truck Drivers should be able to bill the state or federal agencies for their lost wages and expenses when tickets like these are dismissed. You should also be able to write the officer/agency a ticket for impeding Interstate Commerce. Why should the burden/cost rest solely on the accused? Your found guilty you pay, your found Innocent you pay? How is that fair?
8ballexpress

Gary wrote:
Truck Drivers should be able to bill the state or federal agencies for their lost wages and expenses when tickets like these are dismissed. You should also be able to write the officer/agency a ticket for impeding Interstate Commerce. Why should the burden/cost rest solely on the accused? Your found guilty you pay, your found Innocent you pay? How is that fair?


LOL!! Maybe when the snow thaws at the North Pole!!  
Gary

Go global warming!
msterry

IFTA violation

Today our friendly mailman arrived at the door for me to sign for a registered letter from the state of IL.  Instead of the dismissal letter we had been promised we got a bill for the outstanding amount of $1,000.  Yes, it does look like if your guilty you pay, if you are innocent, you pay.  Here is what my darling wife suggests:  we will scan this bill, and attach to an email to the assistant DA in Chicago, responding to her email that told us this had been dismissed, and ask what next.  Yes, the wheels of justice do turn, slow, squeaky, and bumpy.  Will keep you posted.
550tommy

Re: IFTA violation

Quote:
msterry wrote:
Today our friendly mailman arrived at the door for me to sign for a registered letter from the state of IL.  Instead of the dismissal letter we had been promised we got a bill for the outstanding amount of $1,000.  Yes, it does look like if your guilty you pay, if you are innocent, you pay.  Here is what my darling wife suggests:  we will scan this bill, and attach to an email to the assistant DA in Chicago, responding to her email that told us this had been dismissed, and ask what next.  Yes, the wheels of justice do turn, slow, squeaky, and bumpy.  Will keep you posted.



It never seems to end...
Walkinman

Hi all, new to this forum but not too new to this business (been doing it a little over 2 years, wish I had found this forum a long time ago!)

This subject matter has me confused, I'm based out of IL and obviously run this state and a few surrounding ones, I'm running a 97 F350 and a 40 ft PJ lowboy, the truck is plated with IL flat rate plates at 12k and the trailer is plated at 14k. The way I've read the laws it seemed to me that as long as I stayed under 26k gross I didn't need IRP or IFTA and my experiences seem to back this up... I've been pulled in and inspected numerous times with never a word said about how I was plated (actually got stopped and escorted to a scale in MI yesterday 'cuz the officer thought for sure I needed IFTA, after a weigh and inspection he released me with a clean slate)

Can someone shed some light on this for me?  I've been contemplating going apportioned anyways to bump my weight limit (26k is pretty restrictive at times as you all know) but I'm not sure on the costs vs. what I'm paying now, how to handle the drug and alcohol testing, IFTA reporting, etc.

Are there states that require you to have IRP plates even if under 26k?  And if so what is the benefit to them?  Under 26k I don't fall under the IFTA requirements so what is the difference to them vs. my flat rate plates?

I hope hi-jacking this thread is ok, I'm not familiar with protocol on this site but being that this happened in my home state it now has me concerned that I could get popped for something similar even though out of my 5 or 6 inspections in 4 different states it's never come up....
Thanks in advance!
Gary

Welcome to the forum Walkinman, glad you like it.

I'm not positive that IL has "Reciprocity" with their surrounding States    but with you getting inspected and them letting you go it tells me they probably do. Some states have reciprocity with their surrounding States and that makes it OK to run a Base plate for one of the states in some of the surrounding States. If IL doesn't have Reciprocity then you definitely need IRP plates, or at least what they call dual state registration. IRP plates for these set ups typically cost around $1,000.00 per year.

IFTA is very simple, you just need to keep track of your fuel receipts and the miles you run in each State. The expense of having IFTA and filing it each quarter ads up to about as much as it would cost to take your family out for dinner at McDonald's.  I'm serious, it's very cheap as long as you buy some fuel in each State.

Now I noticed you mentioned Random Drug Testing. No matter what you MUST have that if your driving commercially. Your weight being 26,001 lbs or less doesn't exempt you from it. If they catch you NOT being signed up with a random drug testing service the fines will be staggering.  Your suppose to sign up and get the results back from your first test prior to even driving your truck. This is a Federal Offense and the fine for driving without having the results in your office is $10,000.00 alone. If your not signed up yet? Get signed up fast! If you need a number for the company most of us use just let me know and I'll PM it to you.

Hope this info has helped.
Walkinman

If you could PM me that number that would be great, to my knowledge as an O/O the only option is to sign up with some sort of program like that, correct? Or is there a way to take care of it on your own as the owner of the "company"?

As far as me not doing the drug testing yet the way I read the law was only if a commercial vehicle required a CDL to operate was it necessary to be drug tested... is that correct?  In IL my standard license allows me to operate a single vehicle with a GVWR or physical weight (whichever is higher) up to 16k and a combination vehicle up to 26k so as of now I have no need for a CDL although I'm still in the process of getting it.  I do know there are states that don't honor those provisions of my IL license (NY comes to mind as they require a CDL for any trailer over 10k, not 100% what other states might run that way)  Even during my safety audit I was told that as long as I did not have a CDL I had no requirement to be drug tested but I know how the law "changes" depending on who is interepreting it...  (one of the wonderfully frustrating parts of this business!)  I do my absolute best to stay legal but it seems like every day I find out something new that I need to comply with so it does get overwhelming but I'm gonna keep plugging along  
Gary

Walkinman wrote:
If you could PM me that number that would be great, to my knowledge as an O/O the only option is to sign up with some sort of program like that, correct? Or is there a way to take care of it on your own as the owner of the "company"?

As far as me not doing the drug testing yet the way I read the law was only if a commercial vehicle required a CDL to operate was it necessary to be drug tested... is that correct?  In IL my standard license allows me to operate a single vehicle with a GVWR or physical weight (whichever is higher) up to 16k and a combination vehicle up to 26k so as of now I have no need for a CDL although I'm still in the process of getting it.  I do know there are states that don't honor those provisions of my IL license (NY comes to mind as they require a CDL for any trailer over 10k, not 100% what other states might run that way)  Even during my safety audit I was told that as long as I did not have a CDL I had no requirement to be drug tested but I know how the law "changes" depending on who is interepreting it...  (one of the wonderfully frustrating parts of this business!)  I do my absolute best to stay legal but it seems like every day I find out something new that I need to comply with so it does get overwhelming but I'm gonna keep plugging along  


IL may not require it but I think the Feds do. I can't say for sure about the under 26,001 situation operating out of IL but I think it would be smart for you to check further into it. I was under the impression anyone operating a vehicle in a commercial capacity (for Hire) had to be enrolled in a random drug testing program. I'll PM you my drug testing companies contact info, they'll be able to tell you for sure.

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