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Unique Situation, need advice

 
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jscottfischer



Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 5


Location: ny nj

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Unique Situation, need advice  Reply with quote

Hey Folks.  So Im a family man, living in central NJ but moving to upstate NY.  Weve been wanting to get out of NJ for a while now.

I have many life interests, and I do several types of work plus own my own small custom carpet business.

My situation is a little different than getting into hauling full time.  I have a CDL A, but never really used it except helping a couple friends out in a pinch.  I have driven many types of truck and trailer combos, but not full time.

I have workd in hard, sweaty, long hours and less thanks all my life, so no amount of difficult/stressful work or driving worries me.

My situation is I have various tractors, cars (max load of 15/16,000lbs) and implements (i do some farming as well) that I want to move to NY.  I was thinking of getting a F550 and a 23,000 lb GN to move my own equipment. (Need advice choosing vehicle/trailer combos as well, I cant seem to get a straight answer from DOT/FMCSA/DMV on what weights are legal for what vehicles etc)

One issue is it seems nobody will insure this as a "non commercial" vehicle.  (I had toyed with the idea of simply hauling my own items, "not for hire" etc but seems just too much $$$ to lose in the venture)

Also DOT regs and weigh stations probably wont let my just slide by, here in NJ and NY.  (I cant really afford to be stopped or harrassed for any reasons, even if I cant avoid it, Ill try)

So it looks like if, in fact, I want to haul my own  stuff, Ill have to try to get a specailzed hauling operation going just to help pay for some of the insurance and associated costs.

I was thinking of trying to find farms around me in NJ that would buy hay from NY... maybe some other medium weight freight hauling specialties, like overnighting from NY to NJ (bring my own items up during the day, sleep, bring a load home to NJ later in the evening.)

So basically I was hoping for some insight if anyone has tried this or have any experience in this type of thing.  I know you guys are mostly west of the mississippi, if im not mistaken?

Just looking for some wisdom before I drop 30k on a 2000's F550 and trailer.  (Thinking I wont be hauling coast to coast  weekly... no need to drop 70k+ on a brand new hauler)

Also I wanted to add that Im fairly certain that it would be much cheaper to hire a hauler to move everything for me.  But I love challenges, Im not afraid to take risks, and even if I simply pay for the fuel and insurance for a year and sell the rig, Ill be happy.

Thanks for your help!
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skippy



Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 16


Location: wiggins,co

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably taking a long shot, but is there any such thing as farm plates there? In Colorado if you're hauling your own stuff you can run farm plates and are exempt from a lot of cdl/dot regs and unless your in a semi you don't have to worry about weigh stations.

On the hay hauling side, last time I was in New York it was mostly big round bales, or small squares. Big rounds can turn into ugly loads and lost bales if they are bad bales(deformed) and small squares are labor intensive as far as stacking them on the trailer. Best way to make money on hay hauling is to fit as much as you can on a trailer and load heavy as most of the time freight is calculated by the bale or by the ton, well at least in my dealings
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jscottfischer



Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 5


Location: ny nj

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Skippy, Thanks!

Only a couple issues with this.  Currently Im not exactly "farming" in NY yet, which, now that Ive closed on my house, most likely where Ill have the billing information sent if its going to be cheaper than NJ.

The other thing is straight line distance is just over 180 miles, which is  about 30 miles out side the "150 miles" regulation for farm plates.  I dont think theres a way to get around this.

That only leaves 2 options.... hire someone else to haul this up (its going to be  a few trips and hell probably have to come back empty, which, I dont blame the guy if he made me wait to find a load back to my area...  but that would probably take more time than Id like...also, kinda makes me "not in control" of whats happening and when I can go with my stuff to NY, I dont think that will work with my business...)

OR

Somehow I find a few people or farms or whatever thats interested in using me to haul items from NY to NJ (and once I move my large gear up, I could afford to haul from NJ to NY)  or I could resell hay or alfalfa to farms in NJ from NY. (This way I can hopefully make enough to pay the rediculous expenses!)

Also wondering about apportioned registration for NY NJ PA... perhaps with the low miles I would be driving this could save some trouble?

Again, thanks for any help anyone can provide.  Thanks skip
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Swamp Weasel



Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 260


Location: Palmetto, FL

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

--If your only going to make a few trips back & forth you could buy fuel trip permits instead of apportioned tags..

--Also maybe look into buying a 3500 or 350 sized truck.  Might be easier to get non commercial insurance for it..  

--DOT won't advise you on what type of equipment to get.  Just make sure you register your combination for enough weight for truck, trailer, load weight, & be sure not to exceed it.  Also don't exceed any axle weights & you should be fine.  With all the tolls up there, I'd steer more towards a tandem axle trailer than a triple axle.  Some tolls were double the price for a 5 axle rig vs. a 4 axle rig..

--Haven't looked into this in a while, but can't you just get the free DOT # & put Not For Hire on the doors..?  You'd still have to run log books & abide by all other DOT regs, but would you still need commercial insurance..?  I don't know..   Couldn't truck for hire, but would get all your stuff where it needs to go..


--Lastly, you mentioned hauling for hire in there somewhere just to make enough $$ to cover fuel, & insurance expenses..  Please don't do that..  If your going to put yourself & your equipment to work, you better damn well be compensated properly for it..  Its hard enough out here trying to make a living, we don't need anybody driving the rates down.  If you go all in, just make sure you get paid what your worth, & your probably worth more than you think..    Good luck out there..


--P.S.  If you do decide to truck for hire, there was lots of good paying freight moving around the North East the last few weeks.  Runs as short as 30miles up to 400miles paying between $1.75-$2.75per mile..  All you need is a subscription to a few load boards & your good to go..
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jscottfischer



Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 5


Location: ny nj

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Swamp Weasel!

As far as the reasearch ive done shows, any vehicle over 10k gvw is going to be commercial registration, and commercial insurance.  Id love to hear otherwise but maybe its just NJ NY PA?  Its going to be hard to haul my 10k tractor, 3 cars, implements, and all our household items up without making too many trips with a small truck and trailer.  

Thanks for the axles... I was looking into a triple but there are some nicer 2 axle duals to look at.

I can get the DOT number and run something like NOT FOR HIRE or PERSONAL CONVEYANCE ONLY on the side.  Im still looking at fuel, tolls and insurance to cover and if I dont haul some freight,  its going to be a VERY expensive joy ride...

Oh, please dont misunderstand me, Id never charge less than a job was worth.  A good, hard worker is ALWAYS worth his wage.  Believe me, I understand how hard it is to make a living and I have very little respect for those who undercut others just to snag a job from someone else.

I was simply referring to the fact that I probably wont be running loads every day, most likely once a week.  Over time, that probably wont provide much of a living, but cover fuel and associated costs at least for the time being untill I am fully moved and can transfer my equipment to FARM use.

More than likely I would want to specialize insomething, like overnights or on demand in order to make up more income than otherwise.  People might pay a premium if they need a piece moved up to NY or down to NJ .... TODAY.  I think that would be scarce enough to not be too married to this but provide a weekly/biweekly load to help cover my expenses.

Now finding those people might be a challenge.

Also I dont want to get too in over my head.  I dont have a hazmat endorsement, nor do I want a billion dollar insurance policy.

Looking at IFTA and all the requirements... theres quite a bunch of stuff to educate yourself on.  I dont want to make a mistake and pay $$$$$ for it.

Im seriously considering eating the insurance cost and just running PERSONAL CONVEYANCE ONLY on the side with my USDOT number.

Anyone have experience with FARM USE insurance in the northeasts?  Most likely if I keep the rig after the move I will transfer it for FARM USE and hopefully that will be much cheaper to just leave the old girl sitting around for a while.

Who knows, maybe I will get into serious hauling later, after were moved but for now I just have too much to do transitioning from NJ to NY.

Also thanks for the advice on jobs in the NE.  That looks pretty decent, Id probably even want to try getting around 1000 for a trip, I suppose a lot depending on the type of freight, conditions etc.  Maybe reselling hay might prove more beneficial?

Also, anyone have experience with specialized work - guaranteed overnight, by a certain time, on demand.... I understand there are risks involved, but thats why I would charge a good deal more.

Thanks again everyone for your input!
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Swamp Weasel



Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 260


Location: Palmetto, FL

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, right on.  I didn't understand you were only thinking of taking a few loads per month.  That makes more sense for only covering fuel & other expenses..  

Commercial insurance is pretty much going to be the most expensive part, except for equipment cost I'd guess.  You might be able to get the cost down a bit by asking for a 500 mile radius policy or maybe even less miles if you could stay that close..?   Also if your not planning on working with any brokers, you could stay away from the $1 million liability & go for the $750,000.  You wouldn't need the $100,000 motor truck cargo either..

IFTA is not expensive.  Think the stickers are $4 & if you over fuel in Pennsylvania, their tax rate is like 74 cents per gallon.  They would be paying you every quarter..  Like I said before, you could also buy fuel trip permits instead, but I think they are around $40 bucks each so this would be much more expensive..

Apportioned tags go off of estimated mileage, so your first year would probably be more expensive than the 2nd year..   Sorry, don't know anything about running Farm use only tags..

Also don't forget about NY HUT..  For vehicles or combinations in excess of 18,000lbs..  It is like another IFTA sort of..  At 36,000 lbs, I pay them 1.6 cents per mile that I travel in the state..  Sticker was like 6 bucks or something..
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jscottfischer



Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 5


Location: ny nj

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I would def keep to a smaller radius.  Also Im not sure but isnt the insurance amount a federal regulation?  I thought everyone had to have a 1mil policy if you were hauling for hire.  Like you said, if Im not working with a broker and going on my own finding my own customers perhaps I could afford less...  Its pretty confusing.

Apportioned tags seem to me to be the easy way.  Plus who is estimating?  I could estimate a really low number, like 10,000 miles (600 mi round trip x 10 trips) and probably still come in under that.  Like I said, once Im moved (im taking my time) I dont think I want to hit the roads permanently, Id then go to farm plates.

NY HUT @1.6c/mi sounds a little crazy.  Id be driving approx 200 mi round trip, x 10 trips = $3200.  I dont know if I can swing that unless Im def hauling freight.

If im not mistaken, If I simply run PERSONAL CONVEYANCE ONLY with a DOT number, then even if I swing through every weigh station to avoid harrasment and let them know what Im doing.... I should be good?  Then again, if I am doing PERSONAL CONVEYANCE ONLY.... do I need a DOT number at all?  I simply have to be able to prove that I am moving my own items and not someone elses for a fee......?

Sorry for the lack of understanding, this seems like Im trying to do a very rare thing.  Who would think moving your own stuff would be so difficult?

THanks again.
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Swamp Weasel



Joined: 09 Sep 2014
Posts: 260


Location: Palmetto, FL

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

--Technically to run for hire all that's required is $750,000 liability.  The catch is pretty much no broker out there will work with you unless you carry $1 million liability & usually $100,000 motor truck cargo insurance..


--Apportioned tags, unfortunately you don't get to do the estimated mileage.  The tag office does it.  I believe they take an average of all the trucks registered at the same weight for each of the states you are going to operate in & that's how they come up with their estimate..  Also, down here anyway you can no longer pick what States you want, they just give you all 49, & Canadian provinces..

--NY HUT, you must have moved the decimal point..  10 trips at 200 miles is 2,000 miles.  2,000 x .016 cents per mile is only $32 bucks..  It is 1.6 cents per mile for my weight..  Yours could be less as well..


--You could be totally right, I have no clue if all this is even really needed..  You have a CDL A, & are only trying to move personal equipment.  Maybe if you tell them you don't use any of this equipment to make money, or income you can just move it up there & be done with it..?  

Gary will be in here by Monday some time or another & see what he has to say..  

Also I think Mr. Mindless is from NY & might be able to steer you right..?  

I just don't know all that much as I don't live up there & have only trucked for hire..  I don't want to say to just load up your truck & go for it, but then have you get caught doing something illegal & hit with thousands of $$ worth of fines..

-- You should see it down here.  Its like the wild west with construction guys, & land clearing companies pulling triple axle dual, 45' floats with an f450 pickup & don't even have a CDL or a single # on the side of their rigs..  They'll have a bobcat, mini excavator, & 3 ton tractor with a bush hog on there.  Best part is the chains they are tied down with are never even taught, just flopping all over the place..
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jscottfischer



Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 5


Location: ny nj

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey thanks for the reply.  I believe you said,

"Also don't forget about NY HUT..  For vehicles or combinations in excess of 18,000lbs..  It is like another IFTA sort of..  At 36,000 lbs, I pay them 1.6 cents per mile that I travel in the state..  Sticker was like 6 bucks or something.."

So I thought 1.6 cents, but boy am I glad to hear its .016!  Thanks for that correction.  Thats WAY more reasonable.

The wild west, eh?  Chains flopping all over the place.... yeah, sounds like real geniuses down there!  No offence to anyone, but Ive only known two ways to do things, the wrong way and the right way.  Cant say Ive ALWAYS chosen the right way in my life, but.... when dealing with thousands lbs moving down the road at 50+ mph... the right way is the ONLY way for me, hauling for hire or not.  I know there are stipulations and exemptions for government workers... but still... safe is safe no matter how you slice it.  Thats one of the reasons Id want to get a 550 instead of a 350, I know it will handle more weight than Id care to load it for, and hopefully raise less DOT eyebrows because of the sanity of my reasoning...

I appreciate all your guys info, keep it coming!  Its really looking like I may want to simply haul non commercial, not for hire, personal conveyance....Im not completely sold on this idea yet but if I can find decent insurance and get a meeting over with someone in the DMV, couple that with some phone calls to the state police in NY NJ PA and I should be set, if everything pans out!
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PaulChristenson



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 76



PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Unique Situation, need advice Reply with quote

jscottfischer wrote:
Hey Folks.  So Im a family man, living in central NJ but moving to upstate NY.  Weve been wanting to get out of NJ for a while now.

I have many life interests, and I do several types of work plus own my own small custom carpet business.

My situation is a little different than getting into hauling full time.  I have a CDL A, but never really used it except helping a couple friends out in a pinch.  I have driven many types of truck and trailer combos, but not full time.

I have workd in hard, sweaty, long hours and less thanks all my life, so no amount of difficult/stressful work or driving worries me.

My situation is I have various tractors, cars (max load of 15/16,000lbs) and implements (i do some farming as well) that I want to move to NY.  I was thinking of getting a F550 and a 23,000 lb GN to move my own equipment. (Need advice choosing vehicle/trailer combos as well, I cant seem to get a straight answer from DOT/FMCSA/DMV on what weights are legal for what vehicles etc)

One issue is it seems nobody will insure this as a "non commercial" vehicle.  (I had toyed with the idea of simply hauling my own items, "not for hire" etc but seems just too much $$$ to lose in the venture)

Also DOT regs and weigh stations probably wont let my just slide by, here in NJ and NY.  (I cant really afford to be stopped or harrassed for any reasons, even if I cant avoid it, Ill try)

So it looks like if, in fact, I want to haul my own  stuff, Ill have to try to get a specailzed hauling operation going just to help pay for some of the insurance and associated costs.

I was thinking of trying to find farms around me in NJ that would buy hay from NY... maybe some other medium weight freight hauling specialties, like overnighting from NY to NJ (bring my own items up during the day, sleep, bring a load home to NJ later in the evening.)

So basically I was hoping for some insight if anyone has tried this or have any experience in this type of thing.  I know you guys are mostly west of the mississippi, if im not mistaken?

Just looking for some wisdom before I drop 30k on a 2000's F550 and trailer.  (Thinking I wont be hauling coast to coast  weekly... no need to drop 70k+ on a brand new hauler)

Also I wanted to add that Im fairly certain that it would be much cheaper to hire a hauler to move everything for me.  But I love challenges, Im not afraid to take risks, and even if I simply pay for the fuel and insurance for a year and sell the rig, Ill be happy.

Thanks for your help!


If you farm...switch your insurance over to Nationwide AG...they'll insure your farm, your equipment and your trucks and trailers including hauling equipment or crops...

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